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The "Son of God" Title in the 1 John 2:22

Jesus is Yahweh the Son?  See how Christians got this very wrong in the NT, using Jesus' words himself!
Also, is Islam the anti-Christ system according to 1 John 2:22?

Note:  The (*) links below are html backups of the website's blog topic threads, in case the blog and its database are down.

From: www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm:

  

1 John 2:22-23 are discussed further down in details in this table.

Father and Son Definitions:

Definition of Key Terms (*) (a discussion between me and a Christian):

1-  What does "The Father" really mean in the Bible?  How is it defined in Islam? (see point #5 below)  How does the Bible really define it?

2-  What does "Son of GOD" really mean in the Bible? 

3-  Jesus had to at least match Melchizedek in Miracles and Power, according to the New Testament.  See this text-debate (*) between me and a Christian.

4-  Does the Bible say that Yahweh created Jesus Yes it does (*)

  • John 1:1
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God was with authority
    (same Greek word for satan's rule (*) [2] [3])."
      

  • Detailed discussion about Jesus' Will (*) with ample verses.
      

  • In Islam, there are three "Worlds" or Realms:

  • (a)-  GOD Almighty, who is not seen by anyone or anything, nor is like unto anyone or anything.

    (b)-  The World of Command, which is the invisible world of the Beings that were made by the Word and the Spirit.

    (c)-  The World of Creation, the flush and blood, dust and water physical world and Universes (plural).

    Also visit: Is the Noble Quran a Creator or Creation?

      
      
    "Father" and "Son" in Islam and the Bible:

    Christians often quote the following verses to prove that Islam is the Anti-Christ:

    1 John 2
    22  Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
    23  No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

      

    5-  What does the Glorious Quran say about the “Father” and “Son” titles:

  • The Quran is against the exaggerated and inflated meanings of the words, which ultimately the polytheistic religion of trinity was born out of.
      

  • Allah Almighty Said: "And they say: "(God) Most Gracious has begotten offspring." Glory to Him! they are (but) servants raised to honour(The Noble Quran, 21:26)"
      

  • So people did call each others “Son” and “Daughter” of “GOD”. But in all reality, they are no more than Servants of GOD raised to honor.
      

  • Here are some Bible facts regarding "FATHER" and "SON": 

  • Allah Almighty is the Believers' only Guardian (المولى): See Noble Verses 8:40, 22:13, 22:78.
      
  • In Arabic we say ولي الأمر , which means "The Legal Guardian".  المولى is derived from the root word ولي  .ولي also means a chosen friend to Allah Almighty.
      
  • FRIENDS = SONS in the Bible and Quran (ولي , وليهما and خليلا).  We further read the following in the Bible:

    Isaiah 41:8 "But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,

    Chronicles 20:7 Our God, did you not drive out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel and give it forever to the descendants of Abraham your friend?

    James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
      
  • So being GOD Almighty's "SON" in the Bible is equal to being GOD Almighty's "FRIEND".  Now compare this to the following from the Holy Quran:
      
    [002:257] Allah is the friend (ولي) and patron of those who believe. He brings them out of the depths of darkness into light. While those who do not believe, have the forces of evil as their friends; they lead them out of light, into the very depths of darkness. Such ones shall be the inmates of the fire. They will stay there forever.
      
    [003:122] (And remember) when the two groups among you lost heart (and almost fell out), even though Allah was their Friend and Protector (وليهما)? In Allah (alone), should the believers place their trust!
      
    [004:125] Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend (خليلا).
      
  • So the Bible's "FATHER" & "SON" for GOD Almighty and the Believers is clearly metaphoric, and it only means that GOD Almighty:
    1-  Is the Protector.
    2-  Is the Friend.
    3-  Is the Guardian.
      
  • Also, BEGET = CHOSE.
      
  • King James Bible Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
      
  • Allah Almighty used اصطفاك اصطفيتك يصطفي اصطفى اصطفينا to mean to Choose a Servant in Noble Verses 27:59, 3:33, 3:42, 7:144, 22:75, 35:32, 38:47, 39:4 in the Glorious Quran.
      
  • So clearly Islam is in harmony with GOD Almighty being our:

    -  Guardian
    -  Friend
    -  Protector
    -  And the One who Chose us.
      
  • And we definitely believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
      
  • One last important point:  Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus ever called "from the Seed of GOD" or "the Seed of GOD".  We do have "Jesus is from the seed of David" (Psalm 132:10-11, Romans 1:3)But never from GOD!
      
  • GOD has no seed according to both the Bible and the Quran.
      
  • Therefore, the claim that Islam is the Anti-Christ is false.
  •  

    So, is Islam the anti-Christ system according to 1john 2:22 No it isn't.  Here are some Quran and Bible facts regarding "FATHER" and "SON" in more details:

    (a)-  Allah Almighty is the Believers' only Guardian (المولى):

  • See Noble Verses 8:40, 22:13, 22:78.  In Arabic we say ولي الأمر , which means "The Legal Guardian".  المولى is derived from the root word ولي  .ولي also means a chosen friend to Allah Almighty, as in the following point.   

  • (b)-  FRIENDS = SONS in the Bible and Quran (ولي , وليهما and خليلا):

    We further read the following in the Bible:

    Isaiah 41:8
    "But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,

    Chronicles 20:7
    Our God, did you not drive out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel and give it forever to the descendants of Abraham your friend?

    James 2:23
    And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.

    So being GOD Almighty's "SON" in the Bible is equal to being GOD Almighty's "FRIEND".  Now compare this to the following from the Holy Quran:

    [002:257] Allah is the friend (ولي) and patron of those who believe. He brings them out of the depths of darkness into light. While those who do not believe, have the forces of evil as their friends; they lead them out of light, into the very depths of darkness. Such ones shall be the inmates of the fire. They will stay there forever.

    [003:122] (And remember) when the two groups among you lost heart (and almost fell out), even though Allah was their Friend and Protector (وليهما)? In Allah (alone), should the believers place their trust!

    [004:125] Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend (خليلا).

    So the Bible's "FATHER" & "SON" for GOD Almighty and the Believers is clearly metaphoric, and it only means that GOD Almighty:

    1-  Is the Protector.
    2-  Is the Friend.
    3-  Is the Guardian.

    Please visit the following link to further see what Words the Glorious Quran uses for these words and definitions:

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1368.msg5203.html#msg5203     (backup)

      
    (c)-  BEGET = CHOSE:

    Regarding the following verse, and many others like it:

    King James Bible Psalm 2:7
    I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    Let us look at Noble Verses 27:59, 3:33, 3:42, 7:144, 22:75, 35:32, 38:47, 39:4 from the Glorious Quran:

    [027:059] Say: Praise be to God, and Peace on his servants whom He has chosen اصطفى (for his Message). (Who) is better?- God or the false gods they associate (with Him)?

    ‏27:59 قل الحمد لله وسلام على عباده الذين اصطفى ءالله خير اما يشركون

    [003:033] God did choose اصطفى Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,-

    ‏3:33 ان الله اصطفى ادم ونوحا وال ابراهيم وال عمران على العالمين

    [003:042] Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee اصطفاك and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

    ‏3:42 واذ قالت الملائكة يامريم ان الله اصطفاك وطهرك واصطفاك على نساء العالمين

    [007:144] (God) said: "O Moses! I have chosen thee اصطفيتك above (other) men, by the mission I (have given thee) and the words I (have spoken to thee): take then the (revelation) which I give thee, and be of those who give thanks."

    ‏7:144 قال ياموسى اني اصطفيتك على الناس برسالاتي وبكلامي فخذ ما اتيتك وكن من الشاكرين

    [022:075] God chooses يصطفي messengers from angels and from men for God is He Who hears and sees (all things).

    ‏22:75 الله يصطفي من الملائكة رسلا ومن الناس ان الله سميع بصير

    [035:032] Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our Servants as We have chosen اصطفينا: but there are among them some who wrong their own souls; some who follow a middle course; and some who are, by God's leave, foremost in good deeds; that is the highest Grace.

    ‏35:32 ثم اورثنا الكتاب الذين اصطفينا من عبادنا فمنهم ظالم لنفسه ومنهم مقتصد ومنهم سابق بالخيرات باذن الله ذلك هو الفضل الكبير

    [038:047] They were, in Our sight, truly, of the company of the Elect المصطفين and the Good.

    ‏38:47 وانهم عندنا لمن المصطفين الاخيار

    [039:004] Had God wished to take to Himself an (actual) son, He could have chosen لاصطفى whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is God, the One, the Irresistible.

    ‏39:4 لو اراد الله ان يتخذ ولدا لاصطفى مما يخلق مايشاء سبحانه هو الله الواحد القهار

    Furthermore, when Jesus was asked about when the Hour will come, he replied by saying that only GOD Almighty Knows, and that no one knows, and that Jesus himself also didn't know.  Please visit:

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/questions.htm
    http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac7.htm#links

    Jesus spelled it out clearly that he knew NOT.  And as to calling GOD Almighty "Father", and that Islam denies that GOD Almighty is an ACTUAL FATHER to anyone, in Islam GOD Almighty is called:

    1-  Rab - Lord, Father (you are the Rab of your home for being the husband and the father).

    2-  Wali - Guardian.

    In the old Aramaic and Hebrew, GOD Almighty was called what-is-equivalent-to-Islam our Rab and Wali.  But that doesn't make GOD Almighty our actual Father.  This is exactly as Judaism metaphors such as idolatry is equivalent to spiritual adultery.  No Jew is actually married to GOD Almighty to actually commit a personal marriage-adultery against GOD Almighty!  Yet, the Jews use metaphors like these.  Islam came to straighten all of this out and to set the record straight that GOD Almighty has no son and no daughter.  Otherwise, why would GOD Almighty torture us to Hell if we were His perfect sons and daughters??  No imperfect being could be an actual son of GOD Almighty (and no being is the son or daughter of GOD Almighty, period!):

    [005:018] (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of God, and his beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to God belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"

    Again, please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1368.msg5203.html#msg5203     (backup).

      

    The Logical Fallacy and Corruption of 1 John 2:22:

    (d)-  Let's thoroughly look at the logical fallacy of this verse and its corruption:

    1-  " Who is the liar"??  Or should the text say who is the one who disbelieves?

  • The text clearly suggests that the book was written by a mere individual, whose emotions caused him to make a logical fallacy in the text, hence he is not a genuine Messenger of GOD.
     

  • Furthermore, we don't see this statement anywhere else throughout the Bible!  For such a serious statement to be truly from GOD Almighty, we would expect it to at the very least exist in any or all of the four gospels.  But it exists in none, and not even in Paul's writings either.  It only exists once in this late epistle.
     

  • Furthermore, the Bible’s commentary regarding 1 John book say:

    "1 John does not tell us who its author is.  The earliest identification of him comes from the church fathers..."  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1904)

    "The letter is difficult to date with precision...."  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1905)

    For book bibliography, visit: www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm

  •   
    2-  Also keep in mind that the 1 John book contains forgeries.  For example:

  • 1 John 5:7  "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."  This verse was proven to be a forgery, and was removed from all of the modern Bible translations.

    Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/1john5_7.htm

  •   

    6-  Did you know that Elohim is Allah [1, *] [2].  The "im" in Hebrew is a majestic plural for GOD Almighty.  The root Word is "Eloh".  And the more original Jews such as Yemenites and others say Alohim or Alah-im.  And when you yourself pronounce it, you do naturally pronounce it with a double "l": Allah.  Jews do call Him: Allah-im.  Aramaic-speaking people also call GOD Almighty Allah.  See the following videos for Biblical references and proofs.  Also, pre-Islamic Biblical archeological findings have GOD Almighty as "Allah".  So the Original Holy Name for GOD Almighty is not Eloh.  It is Allah!  Eloh is a Hebrew dialect, which not all Hebrew speakers use anyway.  Allah had always been the Original and Universal GOD Almighty even before birth of Judaism, and the existence Hebrew.  And Hebrew is a developed language from Phoenician.  See the following links:

               
           (Click to play videos)

           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew

      

      

      

    Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "The Incomprehensible Nature of God and his Son" article:

    This article is a refutation to Sam Shamoun's article that is located at: http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/proverbs_30_4.htm.


    Below, you'll see how I, by the Grace, Mercy and Will of Allah Almighty, have thoroughly:

    1-  Demonstrated how all of the believers were called Elohim (GOD) and Sons of GOD.

    2-  Demonstrated how ample God-like titles were given to many before and after Jesus in the Bible. 

    3-  Exposed the lie of John 3:13 along with the bible's other countless contradictions and lies.  See the my last rebuttal-section below.

     

       

    He wrote:

    The Incomprehensible Nature of God and his Son

    Examining the Old Testament Witness to God’s Uni-Plurality

    Sam Shamoun

    There is a specific text in the book of Proverbs which refers to the incomprehensibility of God, emphatically declaring that God’s nature is beyond human comprehension. The point in the context of this particular Proverb is that man cannot fully fathom God’s essence or his ways and that human beings are dependant upon Divine revelation in order to know who and what God is.

    What makes this particular reference so intriguing is that not only does it speak of God’s incomprehensibility it also refers to God having a Son who is just as incomprehensible and can actually do what God does!

    Here is the specific passage in question:

    "The sayings of Agur son of Jakeh—an oracle: This man declared to Ithiel, to Ithiel and to Ucal: ‘I am the most ignorant of men; I do not have a man's understanding. I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One (qadoshim, lit. Holy Ones). Who has gone up to heaven and come down? Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? (“son” here means appointed or anointed one from GOD Almighty to rule the earth as you’ll clearly see below in point #4!) Tell me if you know! Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar." Proverbs 30:1-6

    It is rather amazing to find the inspired author using the plural form Holy Ones (qadoshim), as opposed to singular Holy One (qadosh), since it is apparent that within the context the plural is in reference to both God and his Son.

      

    My response:

    On the surface, Sam Shamoun's English translation along with his isolation of the Proverbs 30:1-6 verses seem to give a strong proof about Jesus Christ being the Creator of the Universe Himself or the actual and physical son of GOD Almighty.  Now before I destroy this trinitarian lie of Mr. Shamoun (see point #4 below -- below the following links), I'd like to first quote what Jesus said about himself, his power, and GOD Almighty in the New Testament:

    1-  Jesus said that only GOD Almighty knows about when the Hour will come.

    2-  Jesus said that he is not "good", and that only GOD Almighty can be called "good".

    3-  Jesus said that he had no Divine Will, and that only GOD Almighty can Will.

    4-  Jesus even was so weak that he escaped to Egypt, for his life, from King Herod and his Roman thugs.

    5-  Jesus even prayed to GOD Almighty the way we Muslims do, by bowing his face down to the ground before GOD Almighty.

    6-  When tempted by Satan, Jesus couldn't even make up his mind for 40 long days and nights about whether he wanted to stay with GOD Almighty or join Satan.

    7-  Jesus in ample quotes said that GOD Almighty is greater than him, and that Jesus without GOD Almighty is literally nothing.

    8-  The Old Testament even says that Jesus will receive the Spirit of fearing GOD Almighty in him.

    So any of these prove that Jesus is indeed the same as Yahweh Almighty?  Do they even remotely suggest that Jesus was anything other than a mere creation from GOD Almighty and a good Prophet like the rest of the Prophets, peace be upon them?

     

    The "Son of GOD" lie:

    To answer Mr. Shamoun's Old Testament's quote above, one must refer back to the original sources that the quote in Proverbs 30:1-6 was quoting from.  "Son of GOD" in these verses was referring to the Old Testament's servants of GOD Almighty.  These verses are no more than an exageration and a mistranslation to what the original Hebrew really said and really meant.  Let us examine the following examples:

    1-  "Son of GOD" means "Servant of GOD" in the original Hebrew.

    2-  Every believer is Elohim (God) and every believer is a "Son of God".  Christians are quick to call GOD Almighty "Yahweh Elohim", which means "The LORD GOD", but yet, Elohim was a title that was given to all of the believers.

    3-  Ample God-like titles were given to people, before and after Jesus, in the Bible.

    See also the following related articles:

    Answering Jeremiah 23:5-6: A big blow to Sam Shamoun's trinity nonsense existing in the Old Testament.

    The definition of "Son of God" in Islam.

    Son of GOD: Some Muslims' Misconception.

    "Son of Man" does not mean "GOD" or "Son of GOD".

    “Son” is the appointed one to rule the earth as the bible precisely says:


    4-  Others also in the Bible were even begotten by GOD Almighty and were called His first borns:

    Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn."

    Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn."

    Psalm 2:7 "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."  Some Christians falsely claim that this verse refers to Jesus Christ being begotten.  This is easily refuted in the fact that GOD Almighty Said "this day have I...", which means that prior to that day, the person was not a begotten son of GOD Almighty.  This obviously fits well with David since it contradicts their blasphemous connection between Jesus and GOD Almighty.

    So now having established this solid ground about who Jesus is according to his own words in the NT, and how there are ample God-like titles that were given to people before and after Jesus in the Bible, and how Son of GOD is a loose and exagerated term that must never be taken literally from the Bible, the following burning question presents itself:

     

    Why should we take Son of GOD in Proverb 30:1-6 to be any different from the ample verses that are presented above?

     

     

    So who is this Son of God in Proverbs 30:1-6?

    He is the anointed Messiah who will rule the earth!

    It clearly appears that Son of God in Proverbs 30:1-6 is either referring to the awaited anointed Messiah or the nation of Israel.  We have already seen how Israel was called GOD Almighty's son and first born.  So why can't the Son of God in the Proverbs verses be referring to the nation of Israel?  Give me one logical justification to reject this question.

    Furthermore, as we've clearly seen from Jesus' own quotes above, Jesus could never be GOD Almighty Himself!  Jesus couldn't be any more clearer about this.  So even if the Proverbs 30:1-6 verses were referring to him, then this only means the following:

    1-  The verses are referring to the awaited anointed Messiah, who is Jesus Christ.

    2-  Jesus Christ, the Messiah, will be the Lord and Ruler of the planet earth and nothing more, since his only inheritance from GOD Almighty is the rulership of earth.  Please visit: 

    What does "Jesus is the heir" really mean? Does it mean he is the heir of GOD Almighty, or is this just another trinitarian lie?

         
    Also visit:
         
    Answering Jeremiah 23:5-6: A big blow to Sam Shamoun's trinity nonsense existing in the Old Testament.

    My rebuttal to Sam Shamoun's "Refuting Osama Abdallah on Jeremiah 23:5-6" article.

      

      

    He wrote:

    Moreover, name in the Hebrew Bible signifies the essence, nature, characteristics and/or authority of a person. Hence, the writer is basically highlighting the fact that he (along with any other human being) is incapable of fully understanding the ways and the nature of these two Holy Ones, specifically God and his Son.

     

    My response:

    That is a load of garbage like your man-made trinity, because not only ample God-like titles were given to people before and after Jesus in the Bible, but also the believers were even called Elohim.  Does this mean that they are now GOD Almighty?

    To the reader, please visit: 

    1-  Every believer is Elohim (God) and every believer is a "Son of God".  Christians are quick to call GOD Almighty "Yahweh Elohim", which means "The LORD GOD", but yet, Elohim was a title that was given to all of the believers.

    2-  Ample God-like titles were given to people, before and after Jesus, in the Bible.


      

    He wrote:

    Yet this presupposes an essential equality between God and his Son, since not only is the Son capable of doing the very works which define and distinguish God from his creation he also has a name or essence that is unfathomable. In other words, the author seems to be aware that God has a Son who is equal to him and whose essence is incomprehensible.

    According to the inspired Scriptures this unfathomable God is Yahweh and his incomprehensible Divine Son is his eternal Word who became flesh in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ! In the words of the renowned Bible expositor the late John Gill:

    unto Ithiel, even unto Ithiel and Ucal;
    who were either the children of Agur, whom he instructed in the knowledge of divine things; or they were, as Aben Ezra, either his companions with whom he conversed about sacred things, or his disciples who inquired of him about these things, and learned them of him. Some think these are titles of God himself, to whom Agur directs his speech, and acknowledges his ignorance of the divine Being, whom he might justly call Ithiel and Ucal, that is, "God with me", and "the mighty One"; and certain it is that Agur does direct a prayer to God, (Proverbs 30:7-9) ; And some read these words themselves as a prayer, "let God be with me, and one shall prevail", that is, over all mine enemies; for, if God is on the side of his people, who shall be against them? or, "I shall be able" to do all things through the Lord's strength, (Romans 8:31) (Philippians 4:13) ; But I rather think the words should be read, as Jarchi observes, "concerning Ithiel and Ucal"; that is, concerning the Messiah, to whom these names agree. Ithiel, or "God with me", is very similar to a phrase used by Christ himself in the days of his flesh, (John 8:29) (16:32). God was with him as the eternal Word, and his only begotten Son, from all eternity, which denotes his co-existence, nearness of union, equality of nature, and distinction of persons; he was with him as Mediator before the world began, in the council of peace, which was between them both; in the covenant of grace made with him, in which all things were agreed upon respecting the salvation of his people; he was with him in the beginning of time down to his incarnation; he was with him in the creation of all things, in the sustentation of them; in the works of providence, and in the government of the church; he was with him during his state of humiliation; in his infancy, to protect him from the malice of Herod; he was with him when disputing with the doctors in the temple, to direct him; he was with him at his baptism, transfiguration, and other times; he was with him throughout his public ministry, from the beginning to the end of it; he did good and healed all manner of diseases, and wrought amazing miracles, God being with him, (John 3:2) (Acts 10:38) ; and he was with him in his sufferings and at his death; and so he is with him in his exalted state; he raised him from the dead, set him at his own right hand, and ever attends to his prevalent intercession; and will be with him in raising the dead and judging the world. "Ucal", which has the signification of being able, strong, mighty, and powerful, agrees with Christ, who is the mighty God the most mighty, the Almighty; and which appears by the works he did before his incarnation, as the creation of all things out of nothing, the preservation of all things, and the several wonderful events in which he was; concerned, as the confusion of languages, the burning of Sodom and Gomorrah, the conducting the children of Israel through the wilderness, with others; also what he did when here on earth, the mighty works and miracles done by him, and especially the great work of man's redemption, and also the raising of himself from the dead: moreover, what he now does and will do for his people show him to be the mighty One; taking the care of all the churches and providing for them; supplying all the wants of his people, bearing all their burdens, supporting them under all their temptations, and delivering them out of them; strengthening them for his service, protecting them from their enemies, keeping them from falling, raising their dead bodies, and bringing all the sons of God to glory: or if the word should be rendered, as it may, "eaten" or "consumed", it is true of Christ, whose zeal ate him up, (Psalms 69:9) ; and who is the antitype of the sacrifice consumed by fire.
    (The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible; source; underline emphasis ours)

    And:

    Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended?
    &c.] That has been thither to fetch knowledge of God and divine things, and has returned to communicate it. Enoch was taken up to heaven before this time: and Elijah, as is very probable, after; but neither of them returned again, to inform mortals what was to be seen, known, and enjoyed there: since, the Apostle Paul was caught up into the third heaven, and came back again; but then the things he heard were such as it was not lawful for a man to utter: and indeed, since the coming of Christ there is no need of any further revelation to be made nor of any such expedition, in order to obtain it, (Romans 10:6-8) . And, properly speaking, there never was any besides him, whose names are Ithiel and Ucal, that ever did this: he lay in the bosom of the Father, and was privy to his whole mind and will; he descended from heaven to earth not by local motion, but, by assumption of nature; and when he had made known his Father's will, and done his work, he ascended far above all heavens, and received gifts for men; to fill his churches and ministers with them, in order to communicate and improve spiritual and divine knowledge; and therefore, with great propriety and pertinence, he applies these words to himself, (John 3:13);

    who hath gathered the wind in his fists?
    not any mere creature; not any man or set of men; it is not in the power of any, either men or angels, to restrain or let loose the winds at pleasure; nor has Satan, though called the prince of the power of the air, that is, of the devils in the air, any such command of them; none but he that made them can command them to blow, or be still; even he who brings them out of his treasures, and his own son, whom the wind and seas obeyed; …

    what [is] his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
    if thou surest it is a mere man that does all these things tell his name; or, if he be dead, say what is the name of his son or of any of his family; so Jarchi and others interpret it: or rather, since it is the Lord alone and his own proper Son, to whom these things can he ascribed say what is his name; that is, his nature and perfections which are incomprehensible and ineffable; otherwise he is known by his name Jehovah and especially as his name is proclaimed in Christ and manifested by him and in his Gospel: and seeing he has a son of the same nature with him, and possessed of the same perfections, co-essential, and co-existent, and every way equal to him, and a distinct person from him, say what is his nature and perfections also; declare his generation and the manner of it; his divine filiation, and in what class it is; things which are out of the reach of human capacity, and not to be expressed by the tongue of men and angels; see (Matthew 11:27) (16:15-17) . Otherwise, though his name for a while was a secret, and he was only called the seed of the woman and of Abraham, (Genesis 3:15) (22:18) (32:29) (Judges 13:17,18) ; yet he had many names given him under the Old Testament; as Shiloh, Immanuel, the Wonderful, Counsellor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, and Prince of peace; the Lord our righteousness, and the Man, the Branch: and under the New Testament, Jesus the Saviour, Christ the Anointed; the Head of the church, the Judge of the world; the Word of God, and King of kings, and Lord of lords. This Scripture is a proof of Christ's being the eternal Son of God; of his equality with his divine Father as such, their name and nature being alike ineffable; of his co-existence with his Father as such; and of his omnipresence and omnipotence, expressed by the phrases here used of ascending… and of his distinct personality from the Father; the same question being distinctly put of him as of the Father. Some render the last clause, "dost thou know?"
    (Source; underline emphasis ours)

    Gill is followed by another late great exegete named Matthew Henry:

    … 2. As the subject of his discourse. Ithiel signifies God with me, the application of Immanuel, God with us. The word calls him God with us; faith appropriates this, and calls him "God with me, who loved me, and gave himself for me, and into union and communion with whom I am admitted." Ucal signifies the Mighty One, for it is upon one that is mighty that help is laid for us. Many good interpreters therefore apply this to the Messiah, for to him all the prophecies bear witness, and why not this then? It is what Agur spoke concerning Ithiel, even concerning Ithiel (that is the name on which the stress is laid) with us, Isaiah 7:14.

    Three things the prophet here aims at:--

    I. To abase himself. Before he makes confession of his faith he makes confession of his folly and the weakness and deficiency of reason, which make it so necessary that we be guided and governed by faith. Before he speaks concerning the Saviour he speaks of himself as needing a Saviour, and as nothing without him; we must go out of ourselves before we go into Jesus Christ…

    II. To advance Jesus Christ, and the Father in him (Proverbs 30:4): Who ascended up into heaven, &c. 1. Some understand this of God and of his works, which are both incomparable and unsearchable. He challenges all mankind to give an account of the heavens above, of the winds, the waters, the earth: "Who can pretend to have ascended up to heaven, to take a view of the orbs above, and then to have descended, to give us a description of them? Who can pretend to have had the command of the winds, to have grasped them in his hand and managed them, as God does, or to have bound the waves of the sea with a swaddling band, as God has done? Who has established the ends of the earth, or can describe the strength of its foundations or the extent of its limits? Tell me what is the man's name who can undertake to vie with God or to be of his cabinet-council, or, if he be dead, what is his name to whom he has bequeathed this great secret." 2. Others refer it to Christ, to Ithiel and Ucal, the Son of God, for it is the Son's name, as well as the Father's, that is here enquired after, and a challenge given to any to vie with him. We must now exalt Christ as one revealed; they then magnified him as one concealed, as one they had heard something of but had very dark and defective ideas of. We have heard the fame of him with our ears, but cannot describe him (Job 28:22); certainly it is God that has gathered the wind in his fists and bound the waters as in a garment; but what is his name? It is, I am that I am (Exodus 3:14), a name to be adored, not to be understood. What is his Son's name, by whom he does all these things? The Old-Testament saints expected the Messiah to be the Son of the Blessed, and he is here spoken of as a person distinct from the Father, but his name as yet secret. Note, the great Redeemer, in the glories of his providence and grace, can neither be paralleled nor found out to perfection. (1.) The glories of the kingdom of his grace are unsearchable and unparalleled; for who besides has ascended into heaven and descended? Who besides is perfectly acquainted with both worlds, and has himself a free correspondence with both, and is therefore fit to settle a correspondence between them, as Mediator, as Jacob's ladder? He was in heaven in the Father's bosom (John 1:1,18); thence he descended to take our nature upon him; and never was there such condescension. In that nature he again ascended (Ephesians 4:9), to receive the promised glories of his exalted state; and who besides has done this? Romans 10:6. (2.) The glories of the kingdom of his providence are likewise unsearchable and unparalleled. The same that reconciles heaven and earth was the Creator of both and governs and disposes of all. His government of the three lower elements of air, water, and earth, is here particularized. [1.] The motions of the air are of his directing. Satan pretends to be the prince of the power of the air, but even there Christ has all power; he rebuked the winds and they obeyed him. [2.] The bounds of the water are of his appointing: He binds the waters as in a garment; hitherto they shall come, and no further, Job 38:9-11. [3.] The foundations of the earth are of his establishing. He founded it at first; he upholds it still. If Christ had not interposed, the foundations of the earth would have sunk under the load of the curse upon the ground, for man's sin. Who and what is the mighty He that does all this? We cannot find out God, nor the Son of God, unto perfection. Oh the depth of that knowledge! (Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible; source)

    What we will do here is break down Proverbs 30:4 in order to show how everything the inspired writer has stated concerning God and his Son is applied elsewhere in the Holy Bible to Yahweh and the Lord Jesus.


    1. Who has gone up to heaven and come down?

    Yahweh

    Jesus

    "The LORD said to Moses, ‘I am going to come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people will hear me speaking with you and will always put their trust in you.’ Then Moses told the LORD what the people had said. And the LORD said to Moses, ‘Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. Have them wash their clothes and be ready by the third day, because on that day the LORD will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people… On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled. Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the LORD descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, the whole mountain trembled violently, and the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder. Then Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him. The LORD descended to the top of Mount Sinai and called Moses to the top of the mountain. So Moses went up and the LORD said to him, ‘Go down and warn the people so they do not force their way through to see the LORD and many of them perish. Even the priests, who approach the LORD, must consecrate themselves, or the LORD will break out against them.’ Moses said to the LORD, ‘The people cannot come up Mount Sinai, because you yourself warned us, 'Put limits around the mountain and set it apart as holy."’ The LORD replied, ‘Go down and bring Aaron up with you. But the priests and the people must not force their way through to come up to the LORD, or he will break out against them.’" Exodus 19:9-11, 16-24

    "But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The LORD said, ‘If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.’ So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. That is why it was called Babel —because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth." Genesis 11:5-9

    "When you ascended on high, you led captives in your train; you received gifts from men, even from the rebellious— that you, O LORD God, might dwell there." Psalm 68:18

    "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man." John 3:13

    "But the righteousness that is by faith says: ‘Do not say in your heart, "Who will ascend into heaven?"’ (that is, to bring Christ down) or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." Romans 10:6-7

    "But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. This is why it says: ‘When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men.’ (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)" Ephesians 4:7-10


    2. Who has gathered up the wind in the hollow of his hands? Who has wrapped up the waters in his cloak?

    Yahweh

    Jesus

    "And God said, ‘Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water.’ So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. God called the expanse ‘sky.’ And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day. And God said, ‘Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.’ And it was so. God called the dry ground ‘land,’ and the gathered waters he called ‘seas.’ And God saw that it was good." Genesis 1:6-10

    "So Moses stretched out his staff over Egypt, and the LORD made an east wind blow across the land all that day and all that night. By morning the wind had brought the locusts… Moses then left Pharaoh and prayed to the LORD. And the LORD changed the wind to a very strong west wind, which caught up the locusts and carried them into the Red Sea. Not a locust was left anywhere in Egypt." Exodus 10:13, 18-19

    "But you blew with your breath, and the sea covered them. They sank like lead in the mighty waters." Exodus 15:10

    "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight." Job 26:8

    "He makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth; he sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses." Psalm 135:7

     

    "That day when evening came, he said to his disciples, ‘Let us go over to the other side.’ Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along, just as he was, in the boat. There were also other boats with him. A furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat, so that it was nearly swamped. Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, ‘Teacher, don't you care if we drown?’ He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, ‘Quiet! Be still!’ Then the wind died down and it was completely calm. He said to his disciples, ‘Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?’ They were terrified and asked each other, ‘Who is this? Even the wind and the waves obey him!’" Mark 4:35-41

    "Immediately Jesus made the disciples get into the boat and go on ahead of him to the other side, while he dismissed the crowd. After he had dismissed them, he went up on a mountainside by himself to pray. When evening came, he was there alone, but the boat was already a considerable distance from land, buffeted by the waves because the wind was against it. During the fourth watch of the night Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. When the disciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. ‘It's a ghost,’ they said, and cried out in fear. But Jesus immediately said to them: ‘Take courage! It is I. Don't be afraid. ‘Lord, if it's you,’ Peter replied, ‘tell me to come to you on the water.’ ‘Come,’ he said. Then Peter got down out of the boat, walked on the water and came toward Jesus. But when he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, ‘Lord, save me!’ Immediately Jesus reached out his hand and caught him. ‘You of little faith," he said, ‘why did you doubt?’ And when they climbed into the boat, the wind died down. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’" Matthew 14:22-33


    3. Who has established all the ends of the earth?

    Yahweh

    Jesus

    "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone- while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?" Job 38:4-7

    "The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it; for he founded it upon the seas and established it upon the waters." Psalm 24:1-2

    "Your faithfulness continues through all generations; you established the earth, and it endures." Psalm 119:90

    "For this is what the LORD says— he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited— he says: ‘I am the LORD, and there is no other.’" Isaiah 45:18

    "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made… He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him." John 1:3, 10

    "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For BY HIM all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created BY HIM and FOR HIM. He is before all things, and IN HIM all things hold together." Colossians 1:15-17

    "But about the Son he says, … ‘In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.’" Hebrews 1:8a, 10-12


    4. What is his name, and the name of his son?

    Yahweh

    Jesus

    "Moses said to God, ‘Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, "The God of your fathers has sent me to you," and they ask me, "What is his name?" Then what shall I tell them?’ God said to Moses, ‘I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: "I AM has sent me to you."’ God also said to Moses, ‘Say to the Israelites, "Yahweh, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you." This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.’" Exodus 3:13-15

    "God also said to Moses, ‘I am Yahweh. I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name Yahweh I did not make myself known to them.’" Exodus 6:2-3

    "Yahweh is a warrior; Yahweh is his name." Exodus 15:3

    "Who has measured the waters in the hollow of his hand, or with the breadth of his hand marked off the heavens? Who has held the dust of the earth in a basket, or weighed the mountains on the scales and the hills in a balance? … Do you not know? Have you not heard? Yahweh is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom." Isaiah 40:12, 28

    "But the angel said to her, ‘Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end.’ ‘How will this be,’ Mary asked the angel, ‘since I am a virgin?’ The angel answered, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.’" Luke 1:30-33

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:1, 14

    "‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’" John 8:58

    "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. e proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ." 1 John 1:1-3

    "He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God." Revelation 19:13


    5. Tell me if you know!

    Yahweh

    Jesus

    "O LORD, you have searched me and you know me. You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways. Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD. You hem me in—behind and before; you have laid your hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain." Psalm 139:1-6

    "I have not learned wisdom, nor have I knowledge of the Holy One." Proverbs 30:3

    "All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." Luke 10:22

    "just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep." John 10:15

    In light of the foregoing it is rather clear that some, if not all, of the authors of the Hebrew Scriptures were made aware by Divine revelation that God has a Son who is equal to him in essence and is just as incomprehensible. And according to the NT, this Divine, incomprehensible Son became a man through a virgin by the power of God’s Holy Spirit and whose name is Jesus Christ our risen and immortal Lord. Amen.

     

    My response:

    John 3:13 that you have quoted above is a LIE!

    "No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man."  John 3:13

    Yes, not only others did go to Heaven before, but they never even tasted death, not even once:

    From http://www.answering-christianity.com/enoch.htm:

    Who is Enoch?

    Let us look at Genesis 5:

    Genesis 5 (King James Version)
    1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
    3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:
    4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
    5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
    6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
    7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
    8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
    9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
    10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
    11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
    12 And Cainan lived seventy years and begat Mahalaleel:
    13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
    14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
    15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
    16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
    17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
    18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
    19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
    20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
    21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
    22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
    23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
    24 And Enoch walked with God:
    and he was not; for God took him.  See Hebrews 11:5 below!
    25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.
    26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
    27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
    28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
    29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
    30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
    31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
    32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.


    There are few important points to notice here:

    1-  Notice the "and he died" quotes above.

    2-  Enoch never "died"!  He was, instead, taken up by GOD Almighty.

    3-  Yet, we know almost absolutely NOTHING about this great man, Enoch, whom GOD Almighty loved so much that He raised him up to Him.

    In fact, Hebrews 11:5 makes it even clearer:

    Hebrews 11:5 (AMP)
    5 Because of faith Enoch was caught up and transferred to heaven, so that he did not have a glimpse of death; and he was not found, because God had translated him. For even before he was taken to heaven, he received testimony [still on record] that he had pleased and been satisfactory to God.

     

    Again, we know almost absolutely nothing about this great man that never saw death!

      

     

     From http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/qb005.htm:

    Is Uzair the son of God?

    Let us look at the Noble Verse 9:30 "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"

    There is no error or contradiction in the above Noble Verse!  Ezra was regarded as a very important figure in Judaism.  By many Jews, he is believed to have never even died:

    From: http://wesley.nnu.edu/biblical_studies/noncanon/summaries/2esdras-notes.htm

    Second Esdras

     Summary:  

    The Second Book of Esdras is an apocalypse that attempts to explain why God allowed the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem to be destroyed by Gentiles in AD 70. The book claims to report seven visions of Ezra the Scribe concerning ethical issues and the problem of evil and suffering. The first three revelations (3:1—9:25) concern the angel Uriel’s instructions to Ezra about the spiritual-moral realm. In the fourth revelation (9:26—10:59), Ezra witnesses a mourning woman change into the heavenly Jerusalem. The fifth and sixth revelations (11—13) condemn the Roman Empire and forecast its destruction along with other evil Gentile nations by a messiah. The seventh revelation (14) describes Ezra’s role in producing the books included in the canonical Scriptures (the 22 books in the Hebrew Bible) and the (70) apocryphal books. This revelation closes with Ezra being taken into heaven without dying. Chapters 1 and 2 and 15 and 16 are generally recognized as subsequent Christian interpolations.

     

    Titles and Nomenclature:

     

            Also known as:
     

    o       Fourth Esdras in the Vulgate

    o       Third Esdras in the Slavonic Bible

    o       Fourth Ezra

    o       The Apocalypse of Ezra
     

            Its component sections are referred to as:
     

    o       Chapters 3—14: 4 Ezra

    o       Chapters 1—2: 5 Ezra

    o       Chapters 15—16: 6 Ezra

     

    Canonical Status:

            Among the Deuterocanonical Books of the Old

    Testament of the Russian Orthodox Church

            Among the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha of the Greek Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant Churches

     

    Authors:

            Chs. 3—14: Anonymous Palestinian Jew

            Chs. 1—2: Anonymous Christian

            Chs. 15—16: Anonymous Christian

     

    Dates:

            Chs. 3—14: late 1st century AD (after AD 70)

            Chs. 1—2: 2nd century AD

            Chs. 15—16: 3rd century AD

     

    Original Languages:

            Chs. 3—14: Hebrew or Aramaic

            Chs. 1—2: Greek

            Chs. 15—16: Greek

     

    Manuscripts:

            No original Hebrew or Aramaic manuscripts survive from the central section (chapters 3—14). This section was translated into Greek, but no manuscripts are extant from this version either.

            A fragment (15:57-59) survives from the third, and latest, section (chapters 15—16) in Greek.

            Translations from the Greek are extant in Syriac, Latin, Arabic, Georgian, Armenian, Ethiopic, and fragments from a Coptic version.


    Notes prepared by Mark Seitz
    (Junior Biblical Literature Major)

    for the
    Wesley Center for Applied Theology
    at Northwest Nazarene University

     

    Copyright 2000 by the Wesley Center for Applied Theology

     

    Text may be freely used for personal or scholarly purposes or mirrored on other web sites, provided the notice below the horizontal line is left intact. Any use of this material for commercial purposes of any kind is strictly forbidden without the express permission of the Wesley Center at Northwest Nazarene University, Nampa, ID 83686. Contact webadmin@wesley.nnu.edu for permission or to report errors.

      

       

    As to the rest of Shamoun's quotes above, all of them had been thoroughly refuted in the links and quotes that I gave above.  The reader is highly encouraged to visit the following two main sections for ample more articles and refutations to the trinity blapshemy and lie:

    www.answering-christianity.com/at.htm

    www.answering-christianity.com/contra.htm

     Also, please listen to brother Sami Zaatari's debate with Sam Shamoun on trinity, and see how brother Sami thoroughly refuted all of Sam Shamoun's points, so much that Sam Shamoun in the end started hurling foul insults at brother Sami, me pesonally and Islam:

     
     

    The Trinity Audio Debate!

    (click here)

    Listen to brother Sami Zaatari destroy Sam Shamoun's arguments!

    WARNING!!  Sam Shamoun kept throwing foul insults!  Viewer's discretion is advised.

    What does "Jesus is the heir" really mean? Does it mean he is the heir of GOD Almighty, or is this just another trinitarian lie?
     

    My (Sami's) Review of the Debate with Sam Shamoun on Is Jesus God?
     

    Exposing the lying missionary Sam Shamoun - Response to his small debate review.

    Responding to Answering-Islam’s (wildcat's) debate Review.

    This web site gives a good review on Sam Shamoun's foul character.

     

    Visit also the dumpster section to see countless documents in AUDIO, TEXT and IMAGES exposing Sam Shamoun's excessive foul mouth and manners.


       
     
     

     

    My Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.

    Rebuttals to Sam Shamoun's Articles section.

    Ask me any question section.

    What is the role of the Holy Spirit in Islam? Why can't we call it GOD?

    Errors and History of Contradictions and Corruption in the Bible.

    Christians are Commanded to follow the Old Testament.

    Allah, Islam, Quran, Muhammad questions and answers.

    What is the place of Jews, Christians and non-Muslims in Islam?

    Answering Trinity.

    "Allah" was GOD Almighty's Original Name in the Bible according to the Hebrew and Aramaic sources.

    Ample Abrogations in the Bible.

      

    See Also:

    The "Son of God" Title in the 1 John 2:22

    Jesus is Yahweh the Son?  See how Christians got this very wrong in the NT, using Jesus' words himself!
    Also, is Islam the anti-Christ system according to 1 John 2:22?

    Note:  The (*) links below are html backups of the website's blog topic threads, in case the blog and its database are down.

    From: www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm:

      

    1 John 2:22-23 are discussed further down in details in this table.

    Father and Son Definitions:

    Definition of Key Terms (*) (a discussion between me and a Christian):

    1-  What does "The Father" really mean in the Bible?  How is it defined in Islam? (see point #5 below)  How does the Bible really define it?

    2-  What does "Son of GOD" really mean in the Bible? 

    3-  Jesus had to at least match Melchizedek in Miracles and Power, according to the New Testament.  See this text-debate (*) between me and a Christian.

    4-  Does the Bible say that Yahweh created Jesus Yes it does (*)

  • John 1:1
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God was with authority
    (same Greek word for satan's rule (*) [2] [3])."
      

  • Detailed discussion about Jesus' Will (*) with ample verses.
      

  • In Islam, there are three "Worlds" or Realms:

  • (a)-  GOD Almighty, who is not seen by anyone or anything, nor is like unto anyone or anything.

    (b)-  The World of Command, which is the invisible world of the Beings that were made by the Word and the Spirit.

    (c)-  The World of Creation, the flush and blood, dust and water physical world and Universes (plural).

    Also visit: Is the Noble Quran a Creator or Creation?

      
      
    "Father" and "Son" in Islam and the Bible:

    Christians often quote the following verses to prove that Islam is the Anti-Christ:

    1 John 2
    22  Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
    23  No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

      

    5-  What does the Glorious Quran say about the “Father” and “Son” titles:

  • The Quran is against the exaggerated and inflated meanings of the words, which ultimately the polytheistic religion of trinity was born out of.
      

  • Allah Almighty Said: "And they say: "(God) Most Gracious has begotten offspring." Glory to Him! they are (but) servants raised to honour(The Noble Quran, 21:26)"
      

  • So people did call each others “Son” and “Daughter” of “GOD”. But in all reality, they are no more than Servants of GOD raised to honor.
      

  • Here are some Bible facts regarding "FATHER" and "SON": 

  • Allah Almighty is the Believers' only Guardian (المولى): See Noble Verses 8:40, 22:13, 22:78.
      
  • In Arabic we say ولي الأمر , which means "The Legal Guardian".  المولى is derived from the root word ولي  .ولي also means a chosen friend to Allah Almighty.
      
  • FRIENDS = SONS in the Bible and Quran (ولي , وليهما and خليلا).  We further read the following in the Bible:

    Isaiah 41:8 "But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,

    Chronicles 20:7 Our God, did you not drive out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel and give it forever to the descendants of Abraham your friend?

    James 2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
      
  • So being GOD Almighty's "SON" in the Bible is equal to being GOD Almighty's "FRIEND".  Now compare this to the following from the Holy Quran:
      
    [002:257] Allah is the friend (ولي) and patron of those who believe. He brings them out of the depths of darkness into light. While those who do not believe, have the forces of evil as their friends; they lead them out of light, into the very depths of darkness. Such ones shall be the inmates of the fire. They will stay there forever.
      
    [003:122] (And remember) when the two groups among you lost heart (and almost fell out), even though Allah was their Friend and Protector (وليهما)? In Allah (alone), should the believers place their trust!
      
    [004:125] Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend (خليلا).
      
  • So the Bible's "FATHER" & "SON" for GOD Almighty and the Believers is clearly metaphoric, and it only means that GOD Almighty:
    1-  Is the Protector.
    2-  Is the Friend.
    3-  Is the Guardian.
      
  • Also, BEGET = CHOSE.
      
  • King James Bible Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
      
  • Allah Almighty used اصطفاك اصطفيتك يصطفي اصطفى اصطفينا to mean to Choose a Servant in Noble Verses 27:59, 3:33, 3:42, 7:144, 22:75, 35:32, 38:47, 39:4 in the Glorious Quran.
      
  • So clearly Islam is in harmony with GOD Almighty being our:

    -  Guardian
    -  Friend
    -  Protector
    -  And the One who Chose us.
      
  • And we definitely believe that Jesus is the Messiah.
      
  • One last important point:  Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus ever called "from the Seed of GOD" or "the Seed of GOD".  We do have "Jesus is from the seed of David" (Psalm 132:10-11, Romans 1:3)But never from GOD!
      
  • GOD has no seed according to both the Bible and the Quran.
      
  • Therefore, the claim that Islam is the Anti-Christ is false.
  •  

    So, is Islam the anti-Christ system according to 1john 2:22 No it isn't.  Here are some Quran and Bible facts regarding "FATHER" and "SON" in more details:

    (a)-  Allah Almighty is the Believers' only Guardian (المولى):

  • See Noble Verses 8:40, 22:13, 22:78.  In Arabic we say ولي الأمر , which means "The Legal Guardian".  المولى is derived from the root word ولي  .ولي also means a chosen friend to Allah Almighty, as in the following point.   

  • (b)-  FRIENDS = SONS in the Bible and Quran (ولي , وليهما and خليلا):

    We further read the following in the Bible:

    Isaiah 41:8
    "But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,

    Chronicles 20:7
    Our God, did you not drive out the inhabitants of this land before your people Israel and give it forever to the descendants of Abraham your friend?

    James 2:23
    And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.

    So being GOD Almighty's "SON" in the Bible is equal to being GOD Almighty's "FRIEND".  Now compare this to the following from the Holy Quran:

    [002:257] Allah is the friend (ولي) and patron of those who believe. He brings them out of the depths of darkness into light. While those who do not believe, have the forces of evil as their friends; they lead them out of light, into the very depths of darkness. Such ones shall be the inmates of the fire. They will stay there forever.

    [003:122] (And remember) when the two groups among you lost heart (and almost fell out), even though Allah was their Friend and Protector (وليهما)? In Allah (alone), should the believers place their trust!

    [004:125] Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For God did take Abraham for a friend (خليلا).

    So the Bible's "FATHER" & "SON" for GOD Almighty and the Believers is clearly metaphoric, and it only means that GOD Almighty:

    1-  Is the Protector.
    2-  Is the Friend.
    3-  Is the Guardian.

    Please visit the following link to further see what Words the Glorious Quran uses for these words and definitions:

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1368.msg5203.html#msg5203     (backup)

      
    (c)-  BEGET = CHOSE:

    Regarding the following verse, and many others like it:

    King James Bible Psalm 2:7
    I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

    Let us look at Noble Verses 27:59, 3:33, 3:42, 7:144, 22:75, 35:32, 38:47, 39:4 from the Glorious Quran:

    [027:059] Say: Praise be to God, and Peace on his servants whom He has chosen اصطفى (for his Message). (Who) is better?- God or the false gods they associate (with Him)?

    ‏27:59 قل الحمد لله وسلام على عباده الذين اصطفى ءالله خير اما يشركون

    [003:033] God did choose اصطفى Adam and Noah, the family of Abraham, and the family of 'Imran above all people,-

    ‏3:33 ان الله اصطفى ادم ونوحا وال ابراهيم وال عمران على العالمين

    [003:042] Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee اصطفاك and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

    ‏3:42 واذ قالت الملائكة يامريم ان الله اصطفاك وطهرك واصطفاك على نساء العالمين

    [007:144] (God) said: "O Moses! I have chosen thee اصطفيتك above (other) men, by the mission I (have given thee) and the words I (have spoken to thee): take then the (revelation) which I give thee, and be of those who give thanks."

    ‏7:144 قال ياموسى اني اصطفيتك على الناس برسالاتي وبكلامي فخذ ما اتيتك وكن من الشاكرين

    [022:075] God chooses يصطفي messengers from angels and from men for God is He Who hears and sees (all things).

    ‏22:75 الله يصطفي من الملائكة رسلا ومن الناس ان الله سميع بصير

    [035:032] Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our Servants as We have chosen اصطفينا: but there are among them some who wrong their own souls; some who follow a middle course; and some who are, by God's leave, foremost in good deeds; that is the highest Grace.

    ‏35:32 ثم اورثنا الكتاب الذين اصطفينا من عبادنا فمنهم ظالم لنفسه ومنهم مقتصد ومنهم سابق بالخيرات باذن الله ذلك هو الفضل الكبير

    [038:047] They were, in Our sight, truly, of the company of the Elect المصطفين and the Good.

    ‏38:47 وانهم عندنا لمن المصطفين الاخيار

    [039:004] Had God wished to take to Himself an (actual) son, He could have chosen لاصطفى whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is God, the One, the Irresistible.

    ‏39:4 لو اراد الله ان يتخذ ولدا لاصطفى مما يخلق مايشاء سبحانه هو الله الواحد القهار

    Furthermore, when Jesus was asked about when the Hour will come, he replied by saying that only GOD Almighty Knows, and that no one knows, and that Jesus himself also didn't know.  Please visit:

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/questions.htm
    http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac7.htm#links

    Jesus spelled it out clearly that he knew NOT.  And as to calling GOD Almighty "Father", and that Islam denies that GOD Almighty is an ACTUAL FATHER to anyone, in Islam GOD Almighty is called:

    1-  Rab - Lord, Father (you are the Rab of your home for being the husband and the father).

    2-  Wali - Guardian.

    In the old Aramaic and Hebrew, GOD Almighty was called what-is-equivalent-to-Islam our Rab and Wali.  But that doesn't make GOD Almighty our actual Father.  This is exactly as Judaism metaphors such as idolatry is equivalent to spiritual adultery.  No Jew is actually married to GOD Almighty to actually commit a personal marriage-adultery against GOD Almighty!  Yet, the Jews use metaphors like these.  Islam came to straighten all of this out and to set the record straight that GOD Almighty has no son and no daughter.  Otherwise, why would GOD Almighty torture us to Hell if we were His perfect sons and daughters??  No imperfect being could be an actual son of GOD Almighty (and no being is the son or daughter of GOD Almighty, period!):

    [005:018] (Both) the Jews and the Christians say: "We are sons of God, and his beloved." Say: "Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to God belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)"

    Again, please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1368.msg5203.html#msg5203     (backup).

      

    The Logical Fallacy and Corruption of 1 John 2:22:

    (d)-  Let's thoroughly look at the logical fallacy of this verse and its corruption:

    1-  " Who is the liar"??  Or should the text say who is the one who disbelieves?

  • The text clearly suggests that the book was written by a mere individual, whose emotions caused him to make a logical fallacy in the text, hence he is not a genuine Messenger of GOD.
     

  • Furthermore, we don't see this statement anywhere else throughout the Bible!  For such a serious statement to be truly from GOD Almighty, we would expect it to at the very least exist in any or all of the four gospels.  But it exists in none, and not even in Paul's writings either.  It only exists once in this late epistle.
     

  • Furthermore, the Bible’s commentary regarding 1 John book say:

    "1 John does not tell us who its author is.  The earliest identification of him comes from the church fathers..."  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1904)

    "The letter is difficult to date with precision...."  (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1905)

    For book bibliography, visit: www.answering-christianity.com/authors_gospels.htm

  •   
    2-  Also keep in mind that the 1 John book contains forgeries.  For example:

  • 1 John 5:7  "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."  This verse was proven to be a forgery, and was removed from all of the modern Bible translations.

    Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/1john5_7.htm

  •   

    6-  Did you know that Elohim is Allah [1, *] [2].  The "im" in Hebrew is a majestic plural for GOD Almighty.  The root Word is "Eloh".  And the more original Jews such as Yemenites and others say Alohim or Alah-im.  And when you yourself pronounce it, you do naturally pronounce it with a double "l": Allah.  Jews do call Him: Allah-im.  Aramaic-speaking people also call GOD Almighty Allah.  See the following videos for Biblical references and proofs.  Also, pre-Islamic Biblical archeological findings have GOD Almighty as "Allah".  So the Original Holy Name for GOD Almighty is not Eloh.  It is Allah!  Eloh is a Hebrew dialect, which not all Hebrew speakers use anyway.  Allah had always been the Original and Universal GOD Almighty even before birth of Judaism, and the existence Hebrew.  And Hebrew is a developed language from Phoenician.  See the following links:

               
           (Click to play videos)

           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
           http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Hebrew

      


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